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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:09 pm 
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NBjoe wrote:
Smith wrote:
I thought that there would be some predictions going on here.

I'll make one.

Walker will win.

By >8%


Unfortunately I have to somewhat agree with you... but will lower it to 7%.

And if that's the case, the MU incomplete will do to the state what he did to the County... drive it towards bankruptcy. :?


:lol: Well :lol: we :lol: both :lol: chose :lol: the :lol: winner. :lol:

(Did there not used to be a smiley laughing hysterically?)

But, I congratulate you as you were a little- or a lot- closer to the margin of (was it) 5% depending on how you measure it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ...Congratulations, Joe, on choosing Walker... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:





(Oh it's a little bit funny.)


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Smith wrote:
NBjoe wrote:
Smith wrote:
I thought that there would be some predictions going on here.

I'll make one.

Walker will win.

By >8%


Unfortunately I have to somewhat agree with you... but will lower it to 7%.

And if that's the case, the MU incomplete will do to the state what he did to the County... drive it towards bankruptcy. :?

:lol: Well :lol: we :lol: both :lol: chose :lol: the :lol: winner. :lol:

(Did there not used to be a smiley laughing hysterically?) :laughing5: :laughing8: :laughing9:

But, I congratulate you as you were a little- or a lot- closer to the margin of (was it) 5% depending on how you measure it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ...Congratulations, Joe, on choosing Walker... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't congratulate me on choosing Wisconsin's Whining Walker (I love how he is getting screwed with the high speed train issue), but I will take it on calling a slightly closer election than you did. I figured Walker would win based simply on... yard signs.

Smith wrote:
(Oh it's a little bit funny.)

That it is.

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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:37 pm 
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Ron 80 wrote:
Smith wrote:
[By he way, where can we read about that fleet of limos that Johnson has? I haven't seen that anywhere but this forum.

A little sarcasm regarding the train issue. A stereotype of the wealthy business owner, and I'm guessing he's seen a train or two in his life (maybe when he finally visited Washington DC this year?).


Ah sarcasm. A very useful tool if not overused and if is also distinguishable from usual pronouncements.

Well don’t dismiss that limo stereotype too quickly. I’ll be lots of really rich guys/gals ride in them frequently. I’ll bet Ted Kennedy and John Kerry are (were, in Ted’s case) big limo riders. Herb Kohl kind of doesn’t strike me as the kind that would use limos all that frequently. I kind of don’t see Johnson as that way either but it’s hard to get a read on him, he doesn’t talk a whole lot or at least I've not heard him SAY a whole lot. But those two (Johnson and Kohl) are actual business owners who have (or had in Kohl’s case) employees whose lives are impacted by their decisions pretty directly. (Yes I’m dismissing the Bucks at this time in referring to Kohl’s decisions not so much affecting employees as past-tense.) Kennedy is (was) a trust-fund kid whose money was pretty much given to him, having been made by bootlegging and maintained by trust funds and paper shuffling. (Why Democrats liked this guy I don't know.) Kind of a money begets money thing. Kerry married into money if memory serves. (Kind of like McCain. I wonder if McCain's a limo-guy. Don't fly with him.)

I wonder if we can use these two groups of two to think about frequent limo-users vs. non frequent limo-users.

Ahh probably more stereotyping. Never mind.,,


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:52 pm 
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NBjoe wrote:
Smith wrote:
More of the same, you're saying?

It's starting already...I excerpt salient paragraphs from a newspaper story.

From the Milwaukee Post on 7 November, 2010 page 17:

Quad/Graphics to add 1,300 jobs in state.

State gives company $46 million in tax credits

By Joe Petrie
Conley News Service

Quad/Graphics announced Oct 28 it will add 1,300 jobs in Wisconsin and will retain 5,500 jobs here with the help of $46 million in tax credits.

Um, sorry Smith, but this was announced BEFORE Waffling Walker was elected. Last a time I looked at a calendar, October 28 came before November 2. These are Democratic retained jobs.

You can add Kohler, Aurora Healthcare, and possibly Spancrete to the list of those cutting jobs since Waffling Walker was elected.


Well I guess that would really depend on the current date. For instance, if it was October 31st, then November 2nd WOULD come before October 28th…

Thanks Joe.

Fact is, despite the fact that I dint grajiate from Market either, like Walker, I can use a calendar. I was using a little technique to try to draw into an illustrating dialogue the author of the post I was quoting. You see, he was suggesting, I infer, that we were about to see “the start” of corporations climbing all over themselves looking for tax breaks just to stay here and reduce wages, an activity presumably not well-received by the author of the post. (You refer to that activity as “retained jobs” and appear to be “crediting” Democrats or the Democrat party.) The fact is, yes, we’ve been seeing what you refer to as “retained jobs” and he refers to as "tax breaks" for the purpose of corporatons remaining in Wisconsin (and, he says, reducing wages) for quite some time now; we’re not about to see “the start” of this activity. Nothing new, this was a point I wanted to make.

As for job-cutting since Walker was elected: Are you suggesting that those jobs being cut during the Doyle administration is somehow Walker’s responsibility? And I missed the “waffling.” Help me out. Are you referring to the newsstory that we read from Ron’s link wherein the unnamed spokeswoman from Talgo said Walkers “decision to stop a proposed Madison-to-Milwaukee passenger rail line is "not final."?” Because if you are there was also, from the same article, “Scott remains opposed to the train. He reached out this afternoon to encourage Talgo to remain in Wisconsin," Bader said. "He needs time to have discussions next week with the Doyle administration on their intentions when it comes to this project, and will continue to examine all legal options to stop the train."

Two things are certain: Walker will be a one-term Governor if he doesn’t kill the train AND Democrats can field a “worthy” opponent in 2014: Nobody wants to talk about whether or not corporations pay taxes, which was really the point I was hoping to discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:31 am 
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I spoke to someone who works at the Chamber of Commerce. The Quad Graphics job is a kind of mixed story. The jobs are coming to Wisconsin because they are closing plants in other states. Overall, I believe, the person I spoke to said it represented a net loss of jobs across all plants.

So, yes, a win for Wisconsin, but not good news for the other states, and not job creation at all.

Re: Trains: did you catch this -> very interesting opinion piece in yesterday's paper suggesting that conservatives should be in favor of rail?


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:03 am 
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firefly wrote:
I spoke to someone who works at the Chamber of Commerce. The Quad Graphics job is a kind of mixed story. The jobs are coming to Wisconsin because they are closing plants in other states. Overall, I believe, the person I spoke to said it represented a net loss of jobs across all plants.

So, yes, a win for Wisconsin, but not good news for the other states, and not job creation at all.

Re: Trains: did you catch this -> very interesting opinion piece in yesterday's paper suggesting that conservatives should be in favor of rail?


I might be wrong about this, as I'm frequently wrong about things, but I think that conservatives are pretty much of the opinion that if there was a market for rail there would be a private developer of rail. As it is, the roads (paid for by those who use the roads), which, admittedly, are government controlled mostly, seem to be doing the job of facilitating transportation pretty well. (IMHO.)


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:19 am 
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Smith wrote:
I might be wrong about this, as I'm frequently wrong about things, but I think that conservatives are pretty much of the opinion that if there was a market for rail there would be a private developer of rail. As it is, the roads (paid for by those who use the roads), which, admittedly, are government controlled mostly, seem to be doing the job of facilitating transportation pretty well. (IMHO.)

It took me a while to stop laughing about this one. It seems that as Scooter missed any Wisconsin history classes while at Marquette, you missed them as well somewhere along the line. We had privately funded high-speed rail across the state by two railroads - The Milwaukee Road and Chicago & Northwestern. Three if you toss in the North Shore between Milwaukee and Chicago. Trains with names as the Hiawatha, 400, and Electroliner, respectfully, all cracked 100+ mph (in some cases 110 mph mark) in their day. What brought about their demise? Try the airline industry and the freeways: both funded with taxpayer money. Kind of hard to compete with that when you have to not only pay for equipment and operating costs, but the taxes on rights-of-way as well.

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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:01 am 
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Smith wrote:
As it is, the roads (paid for by those who use the roads), which, admittedly, are government controlled mostly, seem to be doing the job of facilitating transportation pretty well. (IMHO.)

Hysterical! The freeways (free, hah!) are paid for by those who use them, yup! yup! We all pay taxes, and we all drive cars, so I guess you got that one right. And, looking at all the stimulus money that has been spent to fund much-needed, much-neglected road repairs around the area, it doesn't look like Use Tax is covering the cost of maintaining the roads....

Wait! Wait! I know this one: Now that Walker the Wanker is in office, he'll maintain the roads and bridges in the same fashion as he has been maintaining the County Parks! We'll all save money on fuel because we'll all have to stay home when it becomes too risky to drive on the crumbling roads.


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:16 am 
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bluemoon wrote:
Smith wrote:
As it is, the roads (paid for by those who use the roads), which, admittedly, are government controlled mostly, seem to be doing the job of facilitating transportation pretty well. (IMHO.)

Hysterical! The freeways (free, hah!) are paid for by those who use them, yup! yup! We all pay taxes, and we all drive cars, so I guess you got that one right.


Good guess, BM, I did get that right. That was kind of my whole point, though. Still, I maintain, the fairEST tax is fee-for-service.

bluemoon wrote:
And, looking at all the stimulus money that has been spent to fund much-needed, much-neglected road repairs around the area, it doesn't look like Use Tax is covering the cost of maintaining the roads....

I think you've forgotten one thing (maybe more). We have collected LOTS more money FOR ROADS than has been spent ON ROADS. Our crooked Legislature and Governor in Madison have diverted funds meant for roads to other places. (See below.) Oh the roads can be supported by the users all right if we could just get the government to quit stealing it and using it for other than the intended use.
Plenty of money is collected in taxes to maintain the roads.
"It is amazing that Governor Doyle and Mayor Barrett can advocate spending $810 million on a new 'high-speed' rail line while the state government cannot even fix one of the busiest interchanges in Wisconsin," said Walker, a Republican candidate for governor. "Years of raiding the transportation fund and years of Milwaukee politicians like the mayor fighting work on the East-West corridor have now led to a crisis that will have a negative impact on commerce." http://dev.www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/89271577.html And from the same article: Critics argue that the Doyle administration created the shortfall by diverting $1.2 billion from the transportation fund to education and other needs. Some of the cash was replaced with bonding authority, but the actions reduced the transportation funds by about $434.5 million, according to Legislative Fiscal Bureau reports.

Here's another sample, not from Madison but, rather, from District of Criminals: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po ... 040198.htm The $217 billion, six-year highway bill contains historic sums for the pet highway and mass transit projects of House Republicans and Democrats, twice as much pork as all the other highway bills of modern times put together. Not coincidentally, its backers believe it will be approved in the House today by an overwhelming majority.


bluemoon wrote:
Wait! Wait! I know this one: Now that Walker the Wanker is in office, he'll maintain the roads and bridges in the same fashion as he has been maintaining the County Parks!


THE AWARD WINNING COUNTY PARKS, YOU MEAN? http://www.wisn.com/entertainment/21295424/detail.html

And what is a wanker?

bluemoon wrote:
We'll all save money on fuel because we'll all have to stay home when it becomes too risky to drive on the crumbling roads.


Well that was Walker's concern: "It is amazing that Governor Doyle and Mayor Barrett can advocate spending $810 million on a new 'high-speed' rail line while the state government cannot even fix one of the busiest interchanges in Wisconsin," said Walker, a Republican candidate for governor. "Years of raiding the transportation fund and years of Milwaukee politicians like the mayor fighting work on the East-West corridor have now led to a crisis that will have a negative impact on commerce."

Thanks for your input. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NO PREDICTIONS?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:32 am 
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NBjoe wrote:
Smith wrote:
I might be wrong about this, as I'm frequently wrong about things, but I think that conservatives are pretty much of the opinion that if there was a market for rail there would be a private developer of rail. As it is, the roads (paid for by those who use the roads), which, admittedly, are government controlled mostly, seem to be doing the job of facilitating transportation pretty well. (IMHO.)

It took me a while to stop laughing about this one. It seems that as Scooter missed any Wisconsin history classes while at Marquette, you missed them as well somewhere along the line. We had privately funded high-speed rail across the state by two railroads - The Milwaukee Road and Chicago & Northwestern. Three if you toss in the North Shore between Milwaukee and Chicago. Trains with names as the Hiawatha, 400, and Electroliner, respectfully, all cracked 100+ mph (in some cases 110 mph mark) in their day.

Wow. Were you a history major at Marquette or was that just something from a history class that you took in completing your requirements? I didn't go to Marquette so I can't speak knowledgeably as to the quality of the history courses you took but they sound just awesome. I had a little bit of train history in seventh or eighth grade. They just made mention of the robber-barons who got their equivalent of TIF districts back then from government (and "the de-forestation of the west" that they facilitated). They were really loooooooooooooooooooooooooong and relatively narrow TIF districts.

NBjoe wrote:
What brought about their demise?


Ummm, the market? People decided to drive instead of ride the train because it was MUCH more convenient?


NBjoe wrote:
Try the airline industry and the freeways: both funded with taxpayer money.


Was the government choosing winners and losers again with taxpayer money? Huh? Not unlike this rail line from somewhere in Milwaukee to someplace near Madison. When will government stop that? Well as for the airline industry, I'll let you have that, I'm not up on that at all. (As I've made clear I didn't take any history classes at Marquette.) But the freeways are paid for by those who use them.



NBjoe wrote:
Kind of hard to compete with that when you have to not only pay for equipment and operating costs, but the taxes on rights-of-way as well.


Agreed. The government can tax anybody and any business right out of their property.

So you're railing (so to speak) against government interference in the market but want more?

When I wrote, "As it is, the roads (paid for by those who use the roads), which, admittedly, are government controlled mostly, seem to be doing the job of facilitating transportation pretty well. (IMHO.)" I was making reference to the fact that those who use the roads pay for the roads by the taxation of gasoline and other fees. I was contrasting the five million users (includes passengers) of Wisconsin roadways with the (what) 16 projected users of kinda high-speed rail between somewhere in Milwaukee and someplace near Madison costing $810,000,000.00. I mean, really, how do we recoup 810,000,000 dollars, how do we justify spending 810,000,000 dollars for that little bit of rail line to be used by so few? The roads are responsible for the transportation of lots of goods and they facilitate many services, all of which more than justify their existence (if you discount any Constitutional issues). Just as with the bus system, the users of the rail line- well the one-time-projected users of the rail line (the line having been mortally wounded by the election of Scott Walker) would not come anywhere close to paying for the maintenance and operating costs probably, much less the construction cost. This wet sloppy kiss to the railroad-builders is the equivalent (some might say) to the projected Village of Greendale wet, sloppy kiss of the Simon group.


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